Between Two Speakers: Eric Archer Q&A
Welcome to our new series, Between Two Speakers, where we chat with editors and creators who are breaking boundaries in trailer audio and redefining the rules of entertainment advertising. We’re bridging the gap between the artists who craft and compose audio and the editors who use their work to build award-winning, game-changing trailers.
How do you tell a story in 2.5 minutes without using dialogue? Or music? That was the challenge creative director/editor Eric Archer faced in 2018 when he and editor Dave Herrera began cutting on a limited-budget, little-hyped horror movie entitled A Quiet Place. Three years and one sequel later, Archer has accrued numerous awards for his work on the franchise, including the Golden Trailer Best in Show for the A Quiet Place Part II trailer. On the eve of the release of The Card Counter – for which he cut a trailer and TV spots – we sat down with the man behind some of the most revolutionary sound design to hit trailers in recent years.
How did you get into cutting trailers?
Before trailers, I was in the feature world. And I could see how the union-sanctioned path to actually cutting a feature, which is what I wanted to do, was very long and laborious. I needed a job, and I had a college buddy who was working at a place called Hammer Films, which is still around. I hated trailers, this was the 90’s and I thought a lot of them were hard sell. But I did notice that there were editors at Hammer who were doing whatever the **** they wanted. Sure it was marketing, but they were in a room by themselves. So I kind of stumbled into it and then eventually fell in love with it, because I’m still cutting and I’ve been doing it for 25 years.
The thing about our industry is that it’s still such a young industry. There’s no “go to this position and then be promoted here, and then suddenly you’re a partner at the law firm.” There isn't a set path for someone to become an editor or a graphic designer. So much of it is mentorship.
When it comes to sound design were you yourself mentored or did you just figure it out on your own?
Sound design has evolved so much in the 25 years that I've been cutting. I mean, it's really just you. Along the way you are being unconsciously mentored by your competitors and peers. I had worked at mid to larger shops, and there's a lot of project-swapping. You see what someone is doing, and you're inspired by it. When I got to Ignition in 2008, Doug Brandt was there. And he was very innovative in his use of sound design, most of which he was coming up with on his own. So I was taking a lot of cues from him and what he was doing.
How has trailer audio evolved during the time you’ve been cutting?
I mean, honestly, when I got started, the aesthetic was comparatively simple: Find a song-- there's no such thing as stems most of the time-- and the extent of your sound design was very simple, like Swish booms. And now it’s so sophisticated. Trailer audio now actually blurs the boundary between sound and music. I used to have to hide bad music, like “let me see if I can cut an explosion in there.” It’s not that way anymore, to the point that it’s almost cart before the horse. Now you have to let sound and soundscape dictate the way you're going to tell your story, rather than the other way around.
Was there a specific moment when you realized that things were shifting?
I think Doug’s work on things like the Transformers Campaign, as well as Steve Harris’ contributions to that campaign (who is now at The Hive) really changed things for me. That campaign was so sound design-forward. You’re using sound design to tell the story, sounds of things transforming, which is germane to the material because the movie’s obviously about five transforming robots. I'm thinking specifically of certain pieces that used music in an unconventional sense, where rhythm is created by the editor using different sounds. So, the editor kind of becomes a DJ in a way. That's when I really started to notice “oh, we’re not just taking a song and cutting to it anymore.” As things change, you have to change the way you do things. That’s true of music and sound as much as anything during the time I’ve been cutting.
Do you think these changes have something to do with the audience evolving and expecting more from trailers?
Yeah! I have two teenage daughters and they're a pretty good litmus test. When we go to the movies there’s a quick review of each trailer and they see through bullshit right away, especially when they’re the intended audience. The attention span thing is definitely a thing, because they're watching trailers on their phones and this is nothing new. I mean, I'm guilty too; if I come across a trailer on Instagram or something, it better grab me within the first few seconds or I’m gonna go look at my friend's baby pictures instead.
Do you think that phone experience is affecting how editors like you layer and edit sounds?
You can't really do slow burn openings to trailers anymore. When I'm cutting, even if it's a drama, there has to be a hook at the top. You used to be able to take your time with it, especially when you have an audience in theaters. Now you need to get to them quicker or they’ll turn away. You need that hook.
What are some other trends in trailer audio you’ve noticed in the last 5 to 10 years?
It feels like everything is customized-- sometimes radically, sometimes subtly -- but it's very rare that you hear a piece of music that's unadulterated from beginning to end. But, that's great, because then you can give it dynamics that maybe aren't already built into the song. Which brings me back to my earlier point about music and design blurring together. The full realization of the alchemy. With so many big action and horror trailers, sound design is really at the forefront. It all becomes part of the same universe, and it’s just very sophisticated. Which is why I think stems are a must for every piece of music now. Even if I'm working with a composer on a 100% custom piece, I still want to be able to manipulate all of the moving parts while I’m cutting. I think different levels of customization are totally key to what we do. If you don’t have stems you don’t have the control you want.
Can you talk more about your process in working with composers and synch houses?
Whoever I’m working with, we have to agree on a reference. Then we’ll try to get on the same page about big issues. You know, here’s what the trailer is going for. And as soon as we agree on a BPM, I’ll start cutting to a click track, sometimes with no music at all. Then I can send what I’m working on to a composer, and keep cutting to the same click track while they’re doing their thing. And when I get the draft back from the composer, I can just drop it right into the cut, and it’s usually about 75% there; and then it’s just a matter of adjusting.
That’s interesting, I’ve never heard of editors cutting to a click track.
It allows me to work in parallel with a composer. Also, if a song gets killed, we still have our BPM and it’s really just a matter of finding a replacement that can be customized to the same BPM. There are always large structural changes, but if you have an agreed BPM, it becomes easier to move things around within the same song.
You’re probably most known for your work on A Quiet Place, and A Quiet Place II. Can you take us inside the process of working on those trailers?
For the first piece I was at Ignition. I was Creative Director and the editor was Dave Herrera. Right off the bat, it was a cool challenge: no one can talk, and it definitely didn’t seem like a music-driven proposition. Dave, the editor, gave the music department great direction. He’s like, “I need sound that gives the impression of silence.” And Dave himself was the one who found the Alien Covenant track that has become a big part of the brand. It was very textural, full of those signature subtle, high sounds. So the first half of the teaser for the first movie was all of the alien covenant stuff, eerie textures, and stretches of quiet. It's like dead quiet, and then the little boy knocks over the lantern and you hear this unearthly echo in the distance, but it all had to play in that room - they’re trapped - you’re just on their faces the whole time. These aliens are on the roof, so we’re panning the sound, from left to right, as they cross over, to match their eye line. It was fun because you don’t usually get to sit in a scene like that in trailers. Then there’s the last little run of bombastic music and shrieking to close it out.
The trailer for the second movie is equally revered for its use of sound design.
There's a sequence after the opening where they're walking through this open field, and they have to get through this chain link fence that's got a hole in it. So we used elements in the music that seem like the noises a fence makes. It’s that thing again where you can’t tell what elements are part of the music, and what elements are part of the sound design. And yet, it doesn’t even have to be noticeable to the viewer; what matters is that they feel the quiet of the world of the film, which is setting them up for a scare.
So you’re using sound design to invite the audience into the world of the film. That’s really important in an age of streaming and video games where the viewer needs to feel like more than a passive spectator.
Great point. I think trailers have evolved to be more immersive for the viewer-- despite the fact we're on phones or laptops-- and so much of that is about music and sound. Then there’s also the marketing side of things, and sometimes what a trailer needs is a famous song that might feel outside the movie, but if it’s the right song and combines with the footage in just the right way, it can inspire something in the viewer. You want to promise something new and fresh every time, but there has to be one element that feels familiar. I think about watching the trailer for Lamb, and I’m like,I want to watch that shit because it just looks crazy to me, I don’t know what to focus on. That’s where the strategy of a well-worn song makes sense. The Beach Boys song we all know, but used in a way to evoke irony. But you can’t keep doing the same shit every time because people will feel like what you’re offering isn’t new enough.
You also worked on The Card Counter trailer, which is phenomenal in the way it feels like a Paul Schrader movie from the Golden 70’s, but there’s also something incredibly modern in its presentation.
If you know Paul Schrader’s work, I don't think there's any surprise that this film is not very commercial. He goes to dark places. So the idea was to try to make the trailer inviting without bastardizing the movie. The first third of the trailer uses a voice over against the film score. Then the back third, we were tasked with cutting to a song from the movie. The song works in the movie, but it didn’t feel like marketing. So we did a customization on it for the trailer. For the middle, the challenge was finding a vibe that doesn’t exist in the movie. A little bit of swagger. But not like Scorsese rock n’ roll swag. So we found it in a library cue by Rob Deer.
Gun to your head, what’s the best needle drop in the history of movie trailers?
Beethoven’s Ninth in the Die Hard teaser, which is kind of cliché now, but at the time was like holy shit! Babu O’Reilly in the American Beauty trailer. the Confessions of a Dangerous Mind trailer that uses “Who Are You” by The Who.
What are your general thoughts about the state of movie trailers?
The trailer is an old form of marketing and it’s as viable now as it’s ever been. It's a miracle that there's still no viable alternative to trailers. Why do trailers still exist in an environment where it's possible to offer snippets of entertainment of varying lengths? So many things about the aesthetics of trailers have changed, but the format itself remains the same: that familiar green band, then a 2.5 minute editorial thing. That's why I feel that we’re an industry at the top of its form. Trailers are so sophisticated and elegant now. And because of the internet and streaming, trailers can potentially be such a huge part of the cultural zeitgeist, which is a power trailers never had before. Like the Die Hardteaser in Beethoven's Ninth is iconic, but it still didn't have the global reach that the last Spider Man trailer had, where 6% of the world watched it. That is crazy.
All that said, the mission remains the same: tell me a story and give me some meat on the bone. I want to feel and I want to be in it. I want to know what I mean. As long as you give the audience that, they’re going to want to hear the story.
About The Speaker
Eric Archer
Creative Director & Editor
With a background in the feature world, Eric Archer wanted a creative path but didn’t know if the long and laborious one to cutting features was for him. A friend from college suggested he check out Hammer Creative, an entertainment marketing and trailer creative agency. Originally not a huge fan of trailers, Eric was persuaded by the interesting approach he saw editors taking at Hammer. Twenty five years later, he’s fallen in love with the work and has cut on franchises like A Quiet Place, The Card Counter, and more.